Fancy a Chinese cracker?
WE are constantly being told how much our future will be harnessed to Asia – nations like India and, in particular, China. China is now “producing” (quotation marks justified, as we’ll come back to this) the sort of laughably dreadful and woeful products that the Japanese began to foist upon us over four decades ago.
There’s one huge difference, however: everybody knew that Japanese products would get better - it was patently evident with every iteration, revised version or revamp of the product. Like the Germans (who also lost the “Foreign Territory Annexation Games” in 1945), it was a given that Japan would establish pride and integrity through the toil and industry of its previously chastened citizens. So what has all this to do with China? Well, China is now starting to utilise raw materials at a rate that makes all other industrialised nations look like they’re sending coal from Newcastle to New Orleans by square-rigged sailing clipper.
But with their unquenchable thirst for raw materials, what are the Chinese turning out? Well, rubbish, actually – pure, unadulterated crap. The Skipper can’t speak for the new wave of Chinese automobiles streaming ashore but has seen enough virtual copies of leading-brand generators, motorcycles, diesel engines and – latterly – outboards to know that they have raised plagiarism to a fine art. There’s only one problem: these products are, for the most part, all show and no go. In some developing nations, it is not unheard of to have to replace a small 2-stroke generator (one quarter of the price of the Japanese product it has been painstakingly made to look like) as much as four times. So why not buy the genuine article first and be done with it?
The Skipper is not saying that this will always be the case with Chinese goods – and it is most certainly NOT the case with anything built in Taiwan – but it would be a foolish dealer who would build a business with a Chinese brand for a linchpin. Many years – no, decades – ago, a major US outboard motor company (defunct and since rescued in the early part of this century) held a huge European distributor conference in Palma, Majorca. One rather loud, drunk, offensively opinionated executive of this behemoth announced with great certainty that “The Japanese will never, ever, make a decent outboard motor.” Mind you, similar pronouncements had also been made in the boardrooms of such august enterprises as British Leyland and the Rootes Group (remember them?).
If the US outboard executive had his time today and made the same prophetic, definitive statement about the Chinese, then we’d probably say he was reasonably on his game. The Skipper reckons there will be 3—night fly-drive trips to the moon before the Chinese create a product that’s totally fit for purpose.
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I do not think I've seen this described that way before. You really have cleared this up for me. Thanks!
Secret Admirer on 07-Apr-10 02:36 AM
We have been Parsun Dealers for the last 12 months or so and we have had no warranty claims as yet and sold approx just over the dozen parsun outboards. We have found these outboards to run and perform just as well (if not better) than the well known outboards. As far as the reliabilty of these parsun outboards all of our customers have let us know they go first time every time. (including Pro fishermen). We can also provide a list of examples of who uses these products. So don't burn your bridges yet cobba.
Helen and Jeff - Parsun Dealer Qld on 18-Mar-10 07:20 PM
Skipper, you are correct once again. It`s not my fault. I reciently changed my medication, I think it`s turning me soft.
Mark Lowth/Sarina Marine on 16-Mar-10 01:54 PM
Jeez, Mark, you don't want to start agreeing with me - where's the fun in that?!
The Skipper on 16-Mar-10 01:08 PM
Skipper, we thought we had lost you! You are of course correct. I shall bow my head in sorrow and promise to be a good boy in the future. While I believe you when you say the Parsun brand was not the object of you obviously tormented splean, you have unwittingly caused it some dammage. My rather shabby, (Yes I am man enough to admitt it), hijacking of this thread has I believe enabled me to undo that dammage. If you are ever up my way, drop in. I am the fat one who desparatly needs a hair cut. The other one is the dog. (It is not unknown for people to find it hard to determine which one of us is the "Brains" of the outfitt). I believe we could have some great debates over some refreshments, right the wrongs of this world, and with a bit of luck, not end up in somewhat infintile slaying match. I shall sign off now with a hearty goodbye, and I look forward to the time when you gace us with another of your utterings. Who knows, I may even agree with you!
Mark Lowth/Sarina Marine on 16-Mar-10 12:29 PM
This thread has been well and truly hijacked now. Tell me of one other general-discussion forum where you can blatantly hawk your product and canvass candidates for your dealer network.
The Skipper on 16-Mar-10 11:44 AM
This a general call to all marine operators who are new, or for what ever reason, have been shunned by the major players. It may be worth your while to call Gary about Parsun outboards ASAP. He is a real person whome you can contact any day of the week if you have question, or indeed a problem. He will not tell you what you have to do, he will ask you, "how can I help". The Parsun range of outboards is small compared to the major players, but be under no illusions, this will change, The big boy`s are running scared, of that you can be assured. Get in on the ground floor and you will never look back.
Mark Lowth/Sarina Marine on 15-Mar-10 06:14 PM
Thanks to all the Marine shops that have got in contact with us about the Parsun outboard range. We are offering new dealership's throughout Australia. Hotspots for a new Parsun dealership would be: Canberra, Port Macquarie, SA, Coffs Harbour. These are areas we are constantly recieving inquiries from customers and instant sales could be made. If any marine stores are interested in finding out more about the Parsun range please feel free to contact Garry on 02 9532-0002 or info@islandinflatables.com.au
Parsun Outboards Australia on 15-Mar-10 02:00 PM
I notice Skipper you said work "for" one of the major players and not "with". While I realise this was probably not a deliberate choice of wording, you have pretty much hit the preverbale nail on the head. My experience with the major players is limited, simply because they did not want to know me. I was either too small, to close to another dealer, (35km of open highway I might mention) or indeed to far away from a "Major" centre. Some what hard to please wouldn`t you say. Add to that being told how much stock, (Read money), I have to carry, the tiny margin in the sales, and basicly being told by a major company what I can and can`t do in my own business, we end up with a situation I personly find untenable. And then along comes the new boy on the block. Great comunication, easy to deal with, no list of demands and a quallity product with a decent margin. HAPPY DAY`S. So what of the future?. Will I ever be a dealer for a "major" player? I hope so. Will it be at the expense of Parsun outboards Australia?, No way in hell. My business will always be a Parsun dealer, if that means the major players will not deal with me, then so be it.
Mark Lowth on 10-Mar-10 11:10 AM
Mark, Believe it or not, the Parsun outboard brand was not specifically a direct target of my spleen when I wrote this piece, but other Chinese brands with which The Skipper has had first-hand experience (not only OBMs) most certainly were. It's good to see such fervour, enthusiasm, passion and loyalty in the way you stand your ground for your product. At the risk of seeming facetious or sarcastic (which is most definitely not The Skipper's intention), think what a name you could carve for yourself if you worked for one of the major players!
The Skipper on 09-Mar-10 10:47 AM
No, thank you. I take on board your comments regarding clinical dessertation as not being realy what a forum is all about, however, after re-reading your original post, I found it hard to determine whether it was meant as a touchpaper for comment, or a very deliberate muck raking exersise because of a hidden agenda. As we have never met, I will take you at your word it was the former as opposed to the latter. You must understand Skipper, many people have invested a lot of time, and indeed money, building the Parsun brand in this country. When some body with obvious talent for the written word, expreses their opion in a forum on the Web Site of a repected publication, the average reader takes what you say as gospel. Lets face it, your little cartoon is even in colour, so it must be true. But it isn`t. Please take into account that you are messing with real peoples income here, not some faceless entity on the other side of your computer screen. The fact is, not everthing made in China is crap as you stated, and certinly not Parsun outboards. Why then, would myself and the other people who share my opion on the subject, not reply? And when we did, we supplied the facts and and the reasons for our view, otherwise, we would have been written off as only defending the product because of financial interest. Yes we do have a fininacal interest in the product, but genuinally beleive it also, and for some one to try and take that away is simply not on. It is downright un Australian.
Mark Lowth on 08-Mar-10 03:37 PM
Thank you, Mr. Lowth. The Skipper is actually quite well informed with facts aplenty - more than you would ever imagine, actually. However, a fact-laden, clinical dissertation is not really what a forum of this nature is about. I am here to light the touchpaper and engender robust, heated and vigorous debate. To this end, I think it is pretty much a fait accompli.
The Skipper on 05-Mar-10 05:46 PM
If you don`t want the pot to spit at you Skipper, don`t stir it. It was YOU who made the comment about fly drive holidays to the moon before China could produce an item fit for purpose, not I. Myself and others are simply replying to your totally incorrect statments and are suppling facts to prove what we say. Hijacking indeed!! And as for facts, I don`t believe I have heard you utter one. It has all been vauge, generic comment without a single example of why you have reahed this conclusion. Don`t forget it was you who brought up Chinese outboards and bundled them into the same catorgory as everthing else. If the Parsun OBM was not the focal point of your utterings, then what was? In fact, was there any point at all. I think not. Just another self opionated clown hidding behind the internet slagging the crap out other peoples products. If you think for one second myself, or anybody else, is going to stand by and let that happen you can bloody well think again.
Mark Lowth on 04-Mar-10 04:13 PM
I would like to know how this forum has been virtually hijacked by the proponents of a Chinese outboard motor brand which was not even the focal point of my original posting. The Skipper is also old and wise enough to know that specifically singling out someone else's product for a barrage or tirade of abuse is neither professional nor particularly ethical. But whilst the term "R & D" has now been brought up, to what does it refer specifically? Those OBM models seen by The Skipper had the same cubic capacity, bore x stroke and gear ratio as a major Japanese brand - where does "R & D" figure there?
The Skipper on 04-Mar-10 01:04 PM
Hello Skipper, glad to here it. Looks like my bid for a Mariner/Merc service dealership is still alive after all. As for the grasping of facts, I am fully aware of the history of Parsun. I researched them before basing my business on a Chinese "Linch Pin" Parsun`s parent company Genova Power Machine Company. They are the world's third largest generator company, have been in business for over 30 years and hold the patent for the world's best rare earth perminate magnet. (So much for inability to do their own R&D). This is by now means some fly by night dingy factory turning out cheap throwaway crap and dumping it on the world. This is a large, well known, experienced manufacturing company who know what they are doing. Parsun back their product. In the unlikely event a Parsun owner has a warranty issue, it is the factory, not the importer who pays for the repairs. Parsun is getting bigger all the time, wiith new models and new dealers. Parsun is here to stay. Write them off at your peril.
Mark Lowth on 04-Mar-10 12:13 PM
Gentlemen, I am truly flattered, but I do not work - nor have I ever worked - for Mercury Marine. And it seems that you do not fully grasp the concept of a Chinese-based affiliate of an established US (or Japanese) company as opposed to a stand-alone Chinese start-up. The Skipper is well aware of where the latest Mercury 4s OBMs are assembled, but the products I am highlighting are not "name" brands.
The Skipper on 04-Mar-10 11:02 AM
Skipper could you please make it clear for us as you are very vague on alot of topics. When you say " the products I am highlighting are not "name" brands. " Are you actually aiming that comment at Parsun outboards? If your reply is YES could you explain what your ideas of a named brand is? If your answer is NO give us a exact product you are talking about.
Parsun Outboards Australia on 04-Mar-10 10:46 AM
Half of Mercury's engines must be crap as well, seeing they are built in china. They try to hide this hey Ken? I mean skipper. Or is this where you say "But that factory is full of American workers"?
K E on 03-Mar-10 06:27 PM
Hello again Skipper, just quick note, had to check my facts before saying anything. (Try it some time) Mercury, the worlds largest marine power plant manufacturer, builds all of it`s 40, 50 and 60 HP EFI 4 strokes in Suzhou China. Just down the road from the Parsun factory as it happens, but me thinks you already knew that didn`t you? Work for Mercury do you? Been chasing price lists from Parsun have you? Come clean Skipper, I have told you who I am, who are you?
Mark Lowth on 03-Mar-10 05:49 PM
Small point re. Mr.Cope's "caveat emptor" piece. His belief is incorrect - that particular Chinese OBM brand has no agreement whatsoever (licensing or otherwise) with the major Japanese brand he mentioned.
The Skipper on 03-Mar-10 05:04 PM
As an Australian Manufacturer, I am teaching my son to wear a miners hat as all the other jobs will be overseas. caused by short term greed ???
Bloke on 03-Mar-10 03:13 PM
Good to see such vigorous counterpoints. Whilst The Skipper's jottings may be incendiary, they are most definitely not deliberately racist. Poor product is poor product regardless of land of origin. We all know about the early Japanese engines and of copied SU carburettors etc, but the fact is that these products performed faultlessly. If the outboard dealers on here are so far getting a good run out of Chinese outboards, well, so be it. But remember one thing: "incendiary" comment is not written lightly purely to goad and rouse feelings by someone who has no idea of what he/she is talking about. As in The Skipper's case, there has to be some conviction and first-hand experience of the subject being aired.
The Skipper on 03-Mar-10 03:04 PM
Re the comment from Paul Cope about a "rather loud, drunk, offensively opinionated executive of Yaffa Publications": I can assure readers that while The Skipper is frequently loud, often intoxicated and invariably opinionated, he is not a Yaffa Marine Group executive. Our standards for offensive behaviour are far higher than that so far demonstrated by The Skipper. Cheers Jim Harnwell Publisher yaffa Marine Group
Jim Harnwell on 03-Mar-10 02:31 PM
Stick to the brief (yours) and forget about cars. Read about Toyota and GMH lately?? Your writing is incendiary at best and almost racist. The Chinese, with thousands of years of 'technology' under their belts (remember, they were undertaking chemistry and astronomy in silk woven clothing - and bound feet for some of the populace - when your and my ancestors were grubbing around in the bogs of Europe!) They are masters of adaptation and of course they are cluey business people who can follow a plan, even from a Kiwi or Aussie.
j on 03-Mar-10 12:55 PM
we are a dealer in bundaberg qld ,i started selling parsun outboards on the 1-10-06 to date i have sold 95 motors,approx value $85000.00 .we have had very little warranty claims & certanly no more than other brands
glenn midtown marinas bundaberg on 03-Mar-10 12:37 PM
Re your post of 1127K, you certainly have got the discussion going, BUT, downright Chinese plagiarism was obviously learnt from downright Japanese plagiarism of the 50's and 60's. Those old enough to remember the Mitsubishi/Isuzu Bellet motor car, will also remember the blatant knockoff of the English Austin engine under bonnet! As for the Parsun outboards, I believe these are manufactured using Yamaha licensed components! In the end most Aussie buyers are pretty savvy and are well aware of the legal term, caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!
Paul Cope on 03-Mar-10 11:48 AM
Re Parsun outboards from China. I have worked in the marine industry for the past 30 years and have dealt with all the major brands. I am a Parsun dealer and have been so from the start they have givin me next to no problems whatsoever and their warranties and dealer support program would give the big brands a nudge. What the hell are you thinking why don't you do a bit of research before you mouth off on some thing you appear to know nothing about write a lot of rubbish and demise a good article how dare you.
gordon ellis on 03-Mar-10 11:35 AM
I take on board the comments from Mssrs Lowth and Cope. I think either Mr. Lowth's mathematics are completely awry or the product is exceptionally bad as he appears to have had two warranty claims on one thousand dollars' worth of business! Re. Mr. Cope's comments, it's not so much the quality; it's the patent, blatant, downright plagiarism, where products are even painted the same colour as those they are emulating.
The Skipper on 03-Mar-10 11:27 AM
I see Brian Poole's name on this forum. If it's the Brian Poole I think it is, then he's a smart guy who knows what he's on about - and can write a bit as well! Regarding the automotive air-conditioning, Brian, this is not strictly true. Some parts may well be contracted to China but these would almost certainly be made in Japanese "satellite" factories to Japanese specs and under Japanese guidance - probably not to the same quality as if actually built in Japan but not third world either. As for the failed battery switch and the piece of deck hardware that cut your foot, the factory would be fully aware of how much they were going to be paid per-unit and would have undertaken to supply a fit-for-purpose article at that price. If everybody adopts the attitude of shrugging their shoulders and saying that failure is accepted or expected because of price paid, then there is no inducement for them to ever improve their products. The Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese learnt all this early in the piece.
The Skipper on 03-Mar-10 11:02 AM
100 thousand dollars worth. And as for pliargism. Patents only last for so long. If they didn`t there would be no such thing as Herron or home brand head ach pills. The patent on the outboards the Parsun is copied from is well and truly expired. Any company, in any country can copy them if they wish. Any sugestion that Parsun is underhanded or a theif is pure fantasy.
Mark Lowth on 03-Mar-10 10:57 AM
Hello Skipper. What a load of crap. I have been using and selling Parsun outoards for over two years. I have sold nearly $1000.00 worth of these outboards, and do you know how many have returned for warrenty?. Two. Thats it, just two. And what were these devestating failures, a stop switch and a base gasket. Cost to the customer, Zero. when you consider the cost of say a 15hp Yamaha is (RRP) $2985.00, with the cost of a Parsun of $1750.00. You do the Math.
Mark Lowth on 03-Mar-10 10:57 AM
Skipper Yes the Parsun brand is a relatively new product. We have been selling them throughout Australia for 3 years now. Your comment about lets see how they are running a year from now seems to be stolen straight out of F&B mag's Independant Test report done back in Aug 2008 Issue#144. Is 3 years enough of a test for you? I can give examples of who uses our engines and how they perform?
Parsun Outboards Australia on 03-Mar-10 10:54 AM
Like the ex OMC exec, from this poorly researched and written article, you can only assume that the reader is being fed a line from "One rather loud, drunk, offensively opinionated executive of Yaffa Publications!". Chinese products can be both good and bad, it just depends on how much you are willing to pay to have them manufactured. On the subject of Japan, remember when we used to call their products 'Jap Crap'? The cycle repeats itself. Chinese real estate prices have doubled in 12 months and their production costs will rise eventually as they did in Japan. Sadly, by the time the majority of products coming out of China are first class, we will start to see a shift to a new 'sweat shop' country. What are the bets on India, Vietnam, Bangladesh or even an African state??
Paul Cope on 03-Mar-10 10:40 AM
Yes, Garry. I have indeed seen, touched, inspected and run a Parsun outboard. This is a relatively new product. If the media is full of glowing customer testimonials in, say, a year's time, then I will be duly chastened, humbled and shown up as the arrogant, opinionated fool that you probably already believe me to be.
The Skipper on 03-Mar-10 10:36 AM
You really have no idea. There are many well known brands made in China. It's just that they don't advertise the fact.
m on 03-Mar-10 04:40 AM
You get the quality from China that you specify and pay for. I was told recently that most air conditioning units in cars sold are now made in China. I recently bought a battery isolating switch from a leading discount retailer. It failed in a week. I have bought deck fitting that has sharp edges that cut your feet. Who is at fault. The Australian importer is at fault so do not blame the Chinese who gave him S..t for peanuts
Brian Poole on 02-Mar-10 04:55 PM
Hello Skipper Let me introduce myself. My name's Garry Baikovas director for Island Marine Enterprises. Our company holds the Australian rights to distribute the Parsun outboard range. Before commenting on your above statments Skipper. Can you please tell me your experiences if any with the Parsun Outboards? Have you used a Parsun Outboard? And if not have you at least seen and touched one? Regards Garry
Parsun Outboards Australia on 02-Mar-10 02:29 PM
Skipper Your The BEST, Love your comment ' actually – pure, unadulterated crap' As for J 's Comment Can not see this ending well ?? J can you please advise any boat company in australia that is doing well importing from China ?? Sorry I may sound one sided ,, Must go now, as a aussie boat builder we are booked out for 8 months and are very busy building boats for real Aussie's
Bloke on 02-Mar-10 01:28 PM
I was not referring in any way to offshore production due to problems with local wages, taxation or whatever. This relocation trend is a fairly recent phenomenon and time will tell how well these "outsourced" products actually fare. If an Aussie or Kiwi overseer is prepared to stand in the factory from start to end of shift every single day, the quality may probably be passable, but when the cat's away..... Also, let me assure you that this column was not written rashly, merely in an attempt to provoke or raise controversy just for the sake of it. The Skipper has seen - and used - enough unfit-for-purpose Chinese items to make an informed decision. Also, what about the recently introduced range of Chinese vehicles that struggles to secure a 2-star NCAP rating and has had two recalls already?
The Skipper on 02-Mar-10 01:02 PM
I think the Skipper is Delusional
First Mate on 02-Mar-10 12:33 PM
You are F***n joking! What about all the Aussie and NZ builders and brands who choose to manufacture in China because they can no longer compete with imports here, cost of wages here, tax here, rents here and the high Aussie dollar? Their technology, expertise and methods are second to none the world over. Their factories just happen to have a different post code these days. Do some research.
j on 02-Mar-10 11:51 AM
tell a friend
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